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Hikaru Nakamura is a chess super grandmaster and is currently the #1 ranked blitz chess player in the world. He is also one of the top chess streamers on Twitch and YouTube.
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Chess, and all games of that fassion will, eventually be entirely solved, there is no physical or theoretical thing in place that stands in the way of that other than processing speed and storage.
And if history is anything to go by, everything that is possible we will do, you could brute force every single chess move that is possible given any state of the game… You might need a storage device and processing the size of a small moon, but factoring that isn't impossible.
And much like we all carry in our pocket a device that's basically better than a star trek communicator now, why not?
How can you maintain assymetry with a mirror?
Games are all about human error, that is how you win. Computers are made to play a certain way so you can learn and win someday. For example, the computer knows everything you do as fast as light, it has to be coded as best as possible to act as a human could or its cheating like old games, before modern tech.
Chess is a draw no matter the opening there is no distinctive advantage for either side the fact that white gets to go first is pretty much irrelevant even magnus stated it. I have ran stockfish against itself on various overly expensive computers for years now with optimal play it’s a draw. When stockfish 25 comes out years from now it’s still probably gonna be a draw it’s just gonna be more optimal at it. Usually black can equalize even if there is a 1 pawn advantage for white say you take whites knight and a pawn off but put an extra rook where the knight was black can still draw. Having a 2 pawn advantage leads to a win as does a 3 pawn. Not taking away material at the start but adding extra pawns to one side is alway a win for that side. There is no magic man behind the curtain.
The Russian or Petrov defense is so cowardly 😂
What chess set is that?
alpha zero has entered the chat
That would be kinda hilarious. Spending decades to "solve" chess only for it to be a draw XD
The higher the elo, the higher the draw rate. At 1 min per move, chess engines have a 98% draw rate. The conclusion is obvious. Chess is a theoretical draw. It doesn't change anything for us humans anyway.
1.e4 e5 2.Ke3!! is always winning for white with perfect play
Chess is like a puzzle you solve it in different ways
The lack of symmetry comes from white moving first, if there are two pieces in view of eachother, and white takes, symmetry is lost.
What's the optimal opening for white ? What's the optimal opening for black ? If both play perfect will it always end in a draw or will white win some games now and then ?
kinda crazy when you realize that one day chess will be the intellectual equivalent of tik tac toe. Always a draw unless your play a child or an idiot. gambling addiction>skill
So hikaru is unsure of the outcome between non-symmetrical openings? Sicillian, gruenfeld, nimoz-indian etc
As a state level champion, I have to say Lex has no idea what he’s talking about.
I guess they will add rng to a newer version of chess.
Wouldn't white always have the slight advantage though? If forced checkmate from the first move exists, then it's impossible for it to be truly symmetrical. The only way for it to be truly symmetrical is if both sides could move simultaneously.
Why we need fisher random with each payers pieces using different positions so symmetry is impossible.
riddle me this the game seems asymmetrical from first move since blacks choices are different than whites since white already moved and board looks different. White can take a piece which black cannot recapture. White can check mate and its too late to check mate as black.
so maybe there is some symmetrical plays but why would white choose to play them — where is the certainty that all plays are symmetrical. i dont play chess so im actually really curious
Even in perfect symmetry, the white pieces can check the king before black, which removes the symmetry. This is why playing symmetry beyond the first few moves isn't viable.
Didn't magnus solve it already?
Just a guess, but White can't gain any effective assymetry because no initial move forces a move on Black, i.e. there is no single purely advantageous move to open with.
It is theorized that there are more possible chess moves than atoms in the universe.
Atoms: 10^120
Chess moves: ~ 10^123
There’s a way to win chess and it’s to account for how every piece would move given the spaces that it’s allowed, I’m no mathematician but it takes crazy math but it’s possible
Really love this. Great insight. Truly wonder if Chess will ever be hard-solved.
This guy talks i keep thinking he is asking a question
Optimal strategy in chess leads to draw (if both sides play optimally), it's been proven long time ago in game theory.
It doesn't really make sense to talk about something if the levels of expertise are so vastly different. Lex doesn't even understand what Nakamura talks about. It is like watching a 6 year old kid trying to talk to a professor about fusion.
U CAN SOLVE SCHESS BUT U CANT SOLVE GUITAR COMPOSTITION
I'm too high for this shit
I think getting enough advantage for a win with white should be impossible with perfect play. I agree with Hikaru.
You can tell he’s disappointed but the truth is this is likely the reason chess has existed for so long and continues to fascinate.
To me, it seems because there are literally quintillions of possible board states, the advantage that moving first gives you is going to be reduced to 0 as the limit of possible states approaches infinity. So even if the advantage were significant in any one state, with quintillions of possible states, I think it is not close enough to a value that is significantly different from 0.
Games that have a set opening can lead to wins even for similar computers playing, but I think this is because the possible board states are drastically reduced so that significant advantage that happens to exist in a single state, where the openings end, can be maintained.
If you are keeping asymmetry then you are handicapping 1 side and you aren't really solving anything. 1 side is always going to win, and if you pui 2 AI against each other who are equally smart the will draw.
My prediction is that AI will end up showing that there is a mutual Zugzang at move 1. The player who moves a pawn first, will lose. That's why it's a draw after Nf3 Nf6 Ng1 Ng8 repetition.
That is some high conjecture. How does symmetrical moves equate to a draw, not to mention symmetrical moves can only occur for so many moves before white wins.
My conjecture would be white wins unless AI develops a perfect defense for black that yields in a draw. Mostly because the turn advantage is incredibly powerful and already breaks the symmetry Hikaru speaks about.
What is this lunatic talking about? e4e5 is never a draw! Black always wins! You're not allowed to move twice in a row, so white is disqualified!
Wouldn’t every game end with the first person to play winning rather than a draw?
Chess could only be "solved" if there was a proven set of moves that white can play that always wins. This is impossible as the advantage of moving first is negated by the fact black has more information before every move. Therefore black can always respond in a way to white that maintains parity.
Chess -> Ticktacktoe
for our (humans) reference, AI have already solved chess to beat any human 100-0, not even Magnus can win a single game from Stockfish .
well i think it could also be like some rock paper scissor stuff, like each opening has a counter, but still many would prbbly lead to draws then
Why does Hikaru sound half 14yo boy and half 45yo housewife
E4 E5 Knight F3 Knight F6
Lex Fridman is 110VCI, 150 FRI
In a perfect zero sum game doesn't the first move give an advantage?
there might end up being like one or 2 openings that only white can win or something, with everything else being a draw
In tic-tac-toe ❌ wins most of the time, so… BE WHITE
wouldnt you think that White always wins, as he is basically one move ahead?